Trump Discusses Vaccine Concerns in Call with RFK Jr.

Republican presidential candidate former President Donald Trump; Independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

During a private phone call with independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr., former President Donald Trump expressed skepticism about vaccines. The call, which was recorded and later posted online, took place at the start of the Republican convention, where Trump is seeking his party’s nomination for a third time. In the recording, Trump raises concerns about vaccinating children, suggesting that multiple vaccines can cause drastic changes in babies.

“You feed a baby…a vaccination that is like 38 different vaccines, and it looks like it’s meant for a horse, not a 10-pound or 20-pound baby… And then you see the baby all of a sudden starting to change radically,” Trump tells Kennedy. “And then you hear that it doesn’t have an impact, right?” Trump adds that he and Kennedy had talked about vaccines “a long time ago.”

Kennedy took responsibility for the leak on Tuesday morning, writing on X (formerly Twitter) that he was filming with a videographer at the time of the call and “should have ordered the videographer to stop recording immediately.” He expressed regret for the release of the recording and apologized to Trump. The Trump campaign referred TIME to Kennedy’s social media post when asked for comment.

The topic of conversation is not surprising, given the history of both candidates’ comments about vaccines. As President during the COVID-19 pandemic, Trump oversaw the federal effort to support the development of vaccines. However, he has also made misleading claims about vaccines and politicized vaccine mandates.

Trump previously boasted about his administration’s rapid rollout of a coronavirus vaccine to combat the pandemic. “From the instant the coronavirus invaded our shores, we raced into action to develop a safe and effective vaccine at breakneck speed. It would normally take five years, six years, seven years, or even more,” he said. In 2021, he referred to the COVID-19 vaccines as “one of the greatest achievements of mankind.”

However, Trump also spread misinformation about vaccines on national television. After receiving a booster shot in December 2021, he was booed by a crowd in Dallas during an interview show with Bill O’Reilly.

Kennedy is a prominent vaccine conspiracy theorist who has repeatedly made false claims about vaccines causing autism, despite studies showing no link between vaccination and autism. Research also demonstrates that vaccines are crucial for building herd immunity and protecting against disease. In 2021, Kennedy labeled the COVID-19 vaccine the “deadliest vaccine ever made.” He has served as the chairman of the board for Children’s Health Defense, an anti-vaccine advocacy group (although he is currently on leave from this role while running for President). He has also previously suggested that his spasmodic dysphonia, a neurological disorder affecting voice and speech, is a side effect of the flu vaccine.

More from TIME

In 2017, Kennedy claimed that Trump offered him the position of chair of a commission to investigate “vaccine safety and scientific integrity.” However, the Trump transition team later stated that no formal decision was made to establish such a commission or appoint Kennedy to lead it. In the recent call, Trump expressed interest in having Kennedy play a role in his campaign. “It would be so good for you and so big for you,” Trump said.